Actor Kyle MacLachlan’s Winery, Pursued by Bear, Highlights His Life Philosophy

The actor Kyle MacLachlan and his business partner aren’t here for any vanity projects.

Twin Peaks, Fallout, Blue Velvet, Dune… the résumé of actor (and unexpected social media darling) Kyle MacLachlan reads like a fever dream of cult classics and sci-fi epics. But when it comes to winemaking, there are no special effects for Kyle.

Pursued by Bear, the Walla Walla, Washington winery he co-founded with winemaker Dan Wampfler, is all about substance over spectacle.

Wampfler, a former chemistry major, brings the precision and science (think: beakers, barrels and probably a spreadsheet or two), while his wife and fellow winemaker, Amy Alvarez-Wampfler, adds her own seasoned expertise. Meanwhile, Kyle handles the quality control and public persona—and he takes that role very seriously.

MacLachlan sat down with us for the Film Issue of Wine Enthusiast Magazine, hitting stands in May, to chat about his passion for wine, his longtime creative partner David Lynch and how he and Wampfler are bottling their friendship and philosophy. What follows is the expanded cut of that conversation—this time, with Wampflerpulling up a chair and sharing his side of the story.

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Episode Transcript

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.

SPEAKERS

Jordon Kaplan, Tod Brilliant, Kyle MacLachlan, Dan Wampfler

Jordon Kaplan  00:07

Hello and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast podcast. You’re serving of drinks culture and the people who drive it. I’m Jordon Kaplan, managing editor here at Wine Enthusiast today, we have a few very special guests in anticipation of our upcoming film issue of Wine Enthusiast magazine. It’s out next week. Today we’re sitting down with one of our main feature interviews actor and winery owner Kyle MacLachlan, as well as his partner and winemaker Dan Wampfler, both owners of the Washington-based winery Pursued by Bear. Today’s conversation will be led by Wine Enthusiast contributor and friend of the pod, Tod Brilliant. They’ll discuss the parallels of wine entertainment and even chemistry. Enjoy.

Tod Brilliant  00:48

Thanks, Jordon. I’m Tod Brilliant, longtime host of the super nice club podcast daylighting today at Wine Enthusiast, and I’m here with actor winery owner Kyle MacLachlan and his partner wine maker, Dan Wampfler, together, they own run and enjoy Pursued by Bear winery in Walla. Walla, Washington, Good morning, gentlemen.

Kyle MacLachlan  01:10

Good morning. How are you? Tod, good morning. 

Tod Brilliant  01:14

Good morning, gents. First of all, I’d like to know where you are, both at Kyle. Where are you at right now? Where are you sitting? I

Kyle MacLachlan  01:24

I’m sitting in my well, a former dining room in my home in LA ever since COVID, this has been transformed into my little office, and we just don’t have any people over for dinner anymore. So there you go.

Tod Brilliant  01:39

Kyle, thank you for that. Dan. Where are you at? 

Dan Wampfler  01:44

at home in Walla, Walla, and normally I would have this call from the winery, but there’s a lot of forklifts and and traffic in the cellar, so my office isn’t super quiet, so I thought I’d do it from the tranquility and silence of the Kyle MacLachlan suite here in the basement of our home. Oh, that’s where you are.

Tod Brilliant  02:03

I love it. Walla, walla Washington, the Kyle MacLachlan suite in the basement. So

Dan Wampfler  02:08

When Kyle comes to Walla, Walla, he stays with us. And we have, we have a we’re lucky enough to have a beautiful home, and there’s kind of a kitchenette and big couch and private bedroom and bathroom and everything down in the basement, and it’s really quiet and large, well lit, and we affectionately refer to as the Kyle MacLachlan suite, because this is where he stays when he’s in town.

Tod Brilliant  02:28

All right, so you two are partners at Pursued by Bear winery, and I would love to just get your origin story. How you met, obviously, is a big deal, and then we’ll get into into the rest of things

Kyle MacLachlan  02:42

So when I first started, my first vintage was 2005 so I’ve been at this for 20 years. Dear Lord, I was custom crushing, making wine at a different winery, Dunham, sellers also in Walla. Walla working with Eric Dunham and his father, Mike, Mike Dunham. And shortly after I started with Eric, Dan came into the mix. He brought they brought dan in. Dan was it first as this assistant wine maker, and then you quickly, no straight in as well. Yeah.

Dan Wampfler  03:20

Eric was transitioning into marketing and sales and traveling the world, and they brought me in as Ed winemaker to replace him. There was an assistant wine maker at the time, and he was on the way out, so I think his last week was my first week. And, yeah, no, it was fast transition,

Kyle MacLachlan  03:36

yeah. And so we started working together very early in my journey, working with Dan, and we just hit it off. Quality was at the very tip top of our list. And we, we started off, you know, looking at our sources and and ended our barrels. And kind of from the from the very beginning, approached it as not just a, not just a kind of a hobby project or a side project, but really is a passion, and really intent on making great wine from Washington. And so that was the beginning. And we haven’t, we haven’t changed, changed our course.

Tod Brilliant  04:16

Dan, this was 2006 is that? What you said? 2008

Dan Wampfler  04:21

is when I arrived at Dunham, so the 2006 vintage was in barrel.

Tod Brilliant  04:28

Okay, so 2008 you must have been about 15 years old. Dan, come on. No,

Dan Wampfler  04:32

I appreciate that compliment. The I’m 72 I drink a lot of red wine.

Tod Brilliant  04:41

You were a very you must have been a young wine maker. Is that right? Well,

Dan Wampfler  04:44

yeah, I’d say that’s fair. I came out of graduate school and went right into the industry. So yeah, 23 years old was my first full time position as a in the wine industry. Yeah.

Tod Brilliant  04:59

How good for you and your wife. Amy is also a wine maker, right? Tell us a little bit about where she’s at. Well,

Dan Wampfler  05:05

she’s she’s at work, so we’re co general managers and CO wine makers at a beha. So I like to say that we divide and she conquers. So she’s conquering currently, as I sit and have a podcast with

05:17

you guys, nice. Thank

05:19

you, Amy. We appreciate it. We do. Okay, so your first, your first vintage? What was it?

Dan Wampfler  05:28

My first vintage? I suppose, would be 2000 2001 back at Michigan State when I was in in as an undergrad. So I transferred from chemistry major to enology, the science of wine making, and did a culture the science of grape growing, and never looked back. And so, yeah, a lot of vintages now.

Tod Brilliant  05:48

And the first Pursued by Bear was that a cab What was that

Kyle MacLachlan  05:53

we did? My first vintage in oh five was a blend. Actually, I had 12 barrels, and I had specified a cooperage called Terence so French new oak that had been recommended to me by some wine make a wine, a very good wine maker, friend in Napa and Colgan and her wine maker at the time, this gentleman named Mark Aubert, who now has owns his own wine, or his own facility, makes terrific mostly whites, actually, and some Pinos. And he said, terenceau is the way to go. And I was like, okay, so they actually helped me procure 1212, barrels, 10 of the barrels we filled with Cabernet, one of the barrels we filled with Merlot, and one of the barrels with Seurat. And at the at the time, when we went into blending, we just basically put them all together in one big vat, and that was the blend, and we came out of the gate with an oh five Pursued by Bear Cabernet Sauvignon because it was cab dominant. And the kind people at Wine Spectator Harvey Steinman at the time, gave us a 91 rating, and I was what’s the best review I’ve ever had in my life and my career.

Tod Brilliant  07:00

So people, I’m trying to see how to wear this. Yeah, let’s just revisit this from the from the from the article, because you probably get this a lot. Where to start it. Yeah, I’m thinking it loud. You’re coming into the wine world as an actor, as an actor with quite a reputation, quite a niche, quite a special career that you had at that point. Did you find that you had to prove yourself a little extra and show your bona fides so that people would take you seriously? Or did you find that the wine world was just very open as you, as you came into it.

Kyle MacLachlan  07:40

Well, both, actually, I felt that dewine world was was very open. And that’s one of the great qualities of Washington State. It’s a all, one for all for one One for all and all for one kind of feeling there, overall and tremendous support. And I also had, when I first started, Eric was, you know, kind of the mentor, and sort of showed me the rope, showed me around, introduced me around, and that was very helpful, because he he was from there. I grew up in Yakima, which is about two hours to the north and west from Walla. Walla, same basic geography, Eastern Washington. But I came into it with already, with an understanding that that this was, this was something that had to be earned. I wasn’t coming in to slap my name on something and just put it out there and hope people would buy it and, you know, be around for a year or two. It was, it was much more intentional than that. I mean, it was still for fun, but I thought, if we’re going to do this, I really want to make great wine. I don’t want to put my name on the front of the label. I want the wine to speak for itself. And Dan was completely on board with that as well. It was really about making great wine and surprising people. I wanted to walk into a place and people go, Okay, I know what I’m going to get. I expect this to be an actors, you know, he’s just playing it, making wine. And then they would try it, and every time they were they they would look at me with with a new, I wouldn’t say respect, but with a new appreciation, I guess. And I was like, Oh, actually, you’re serious about this? And I said, Yes, I am. And I knew that would take, well, I didn’t know how long, but it took a while for people to really come around to the idea that that this was something that was important to me

Tod Brilliant  09:32

and Dan, how long did it take for you to come around to realize that Kyle was serious and passionate about wine? It was immediate. It

Dan Wampfler  09:41

was when he walked into the vineyard and he walked into the cellar and tasted barrels. And, you know, I’m in this for the long haul. This is my not just job, but career way of life. I like to call it church. And her church key has a corkscrew on it. And we were saying the same hymn. We’re singing the same hymns. And I. I think that the authenticity and the fact that this is not a vanity project for Kyle drew me in immediately. I love the inquisitive nature. I love the pursuit of excellence that Kyle brings, and the fire for continuing to evolve each vintage, to be, to be better, to find better vineyard sources, to do better things viticulturally, to find better toast levels that match with our wines. And it was just an immediate draw. And ultimately, he’s just a kid from Yakima. If you didn’t know what he did for a living, you’d never know, because he’s so grounded and down to earth and human and lovable and loving. It’s just, it’s just really rewarding on every level.

Tod Brilliant  10:45

So I’m gonna change it up a little bit. And I hear that that that’s, that’s great to hear you guys are have a great rapport as partners, which is clear in all the interviews that I’ve read about you too, except the fact that he sticks you in a basement, but if you’re well lit, it’s well lit that coffee machine.

Kyle MacLachlan  11:05

Yeah? And there’s, and there’s also all sorts of different streamers on the television, which is great. I get Hulu. I’ve got Netflix, I’ve got I got everything. Oh,

Tod Brilliant  11:15

you set up? Yeah. Dan, when you’re when you’re with someone tasting your wine, do you feel compelled to explain the nuances of the wine, or are you more into just letting the wine explain itself first? Oh, definitely.

Dan Wampfler  11:29

Let the wine explain itself first. I don’t like to put descriptors in other people’s minds. I don’t think that’s fair. I like to let the wine open up to a critic or to a client or a customer or just a lover of wine, and let them kind of come to their own conclusions and watch their facial expressions, and then I’ll lean in when kind of given the cues to offer context and, you know, wine making nuance comments. But no, I want people to be on their own journey with that glass of wine. It’s a It’s discovery, and it’s an experience in the glass, and it’s unique and special. And I don’t want to, I don’t want to give too much of a map. So we’ve got the sextant, we’ve got the we’ve got, you know, the old school map, we’ve got GPS, and I kind of want people to go through that journey to on their own.

Tod Brilliant  12:21

I like the way you put that. Over the years, what have you seen for Washington State wines and your availability to get into restaurants in California and other territories? Has that gotten easier? Are you finding a lot of momentum there?

Kyle MacLachlan  12:39

You know, it really comes down to the person running the list, honestly, and the SOM or the the beverage manager and and what they’re interested in, and how much they’re willing to support or push their clientele a little bit. And every restaurant’s got different different group, and whether or not the people that come to that particular restaurant, particular restaurant are really they like traditional they want to nap a cab if they’re going to go big. And, you know, it’s hard to sort of, sometimes it’s hard to break into that kind of mindset. And every every place is different, or we have other places that are much more open to diverse, diversity, and that are and that are excited about the idea of turning their customers onto something new, they’ll suggest. And honestly, when I go to a restaurant, I will just kind of close the wine list and say and talk to the song and say, Hey, listen, I’m this is what I like. Kind of, here’s the price point. This is kind of the flavor profile I like. But I’m open to other stuff. What do you suggest? And I go right to the Psalm and ask them, you know, what they’re excited about, you know? And that starts a conversation that is interesting to me, and that more often than not, they’ll, they’ll rise to the occasion the song will take a few minutes, say, Okay, this is what I got, and this was happening. And we’ll have a little dialog, and we’ll decide on a wine kind of together, as opposed to me coming in looking at a list and saying, oh, you know, because I tend to fall back on the ah, I know this one. I’ll drink that one. That’s what I’m going to order tonight. And I like to be pushed as a diner a little bit. And

Tod Brilliant  14:12

Dan, what are you seeing in terms of receptiveness to Washington wines since you started? Oh,

Dan Wampfler  14:18

I definitely agree that it’s it comes down to the buyer, ultimately, but there has been a few key people and organizations really leading the charge to educate the world of wine. And so it’s getting easier. I’ve been in Washington state since oh two, and, you know, walking into an account on the East Coast, it was like, Oh no, no, we’re on the other side of the Potomac. You know that 20 years ago? No, and now it’s like, oh, Washington wine, yeah, I’m loving what Washington is doing. And so the Washington wine commission and some key producers throughout Washington state, and frankly, talented media folk like yourself that are willing to. To step up to the microphone and into the pen and the articles and talk about how world class Washington, not only is but has been for decades, has made huge impact. So it’s getting easier. It’s still a slightly uphill battle, and I think that that changes with the landscape of the wine world on a daily basis at this point.

Tod Brilliant  15:20

Yeah, no, I understand that. I’m gonna read a recent headline you guys. That is intriguing. Is

Kyle MacLachlan  15:28

this from the Walla Walla bulletin. Is this about? Dan, about that? That’s thing you did with when you know pants or, I’m sorry interrupt, go ahead, Tod, that was

Tod Brilliant  15:36

it. No that. We’ll get to that one later. But this one read, this one reads, Kyle MacLachlan is the best thing that ever happened to the internet. He is healing the world. One social media post at a time. It’s pretty big claim. Are you? Are you healing the world? One social media post at a time, Kyle, you know,

Kyle MacLachlan  15:57

it’s so nice that my wife put that out there because he’s my biggest fan. And, you know, I really enjoy social media. I enjoy the structure of it. I enjoy the fact you can tell a little story, a short story, you can do something silly, and inevitably, that’s what I do, I don’t use it as a other platform, much for other, for other occasionally pointing the direction, maybe to a charity that I really think is important, or an organization that’s important. But by and large, I use it as just a form of bringing a smile, hopefully, to people’s faces and and that is really, that brings me a lot of joy.

Tod Brilliant  16:44

So has all the social and media love, and there’s a lot you have a lot of followers, you have a lot of articles written about you. And your Tiktok game has that translated to any attention to the wines. You know,

Kyle MacLachlan  16:58

the wine, it does make its way into the Tiktok. Occasionally, it’s a, it’s a good question, because, you know, I have, there are two things going on. Is there’s kind of Kyle career, and, you know, fun stuff, and then there’s wine, which is also fun, but it’s the wine is also, you know, around the outside, we have a good time, but the wine itself is quite serious and and I just, I want to take a little bit of the stuffiness out of that. And I think if, if we can make it more accessible, and think to a younger people who are interested in wine, let’s say, or might have a curiosity about wine, if we can make it just more accessible, that’s that’s great. I certainly remember when I was younger, I did not know a thing. And the only way you’re really going to learn about wine, if, if it you know you have your passion for it, is just to try different things, talk to people, acknowledge that you don’t know anything you know, you know a few things that you like, and take the journey to discover. And you have to be open to that. And I try to make that, that option is as friendly, I guess, as possible. Yeah,

Tod Brilliant  18:05

I think it’s a good thing. Making the wine world friendly and accessible is it’s always been sort of a challenge, and not because it isn’t friendly and accessible, but because it just comes with wine, comes with a certain level of intimidation and like, oh my gosh, there’s so much I have to learn in order to know what I’m talking about. And then there’s the imposter syndrome that pops up when somebody asks you to taste or swirl, or, you know, you’re the one who gets to glass at the table, and you have to judge whether or not it’s okay. And it’s like, oh, this is scary. You know, that doesn’t happen with with tequila, right? So anybody doing anything that is making the wine world friendlier and fun has to be a win. So I hope the industry is all about your Tiktok game right now, whether you’re dressed up as a hot dog,

Kyle MacLachlan  18:57

there are some wines that go well with hot dogs. Yes, it’s, it really, is, really is the goal. You know, you make something so much goes into the process of making wine, as you know that the tendency is to become is to treat it with, you know, kid gloves, very, very delicately, you know what I mean. But really, everyone’s doing it. They love it. It’s a passion where we are somewhat at the mercy of nature each year. You don’t know what’s going to happen. What comes in from the from the source, your sources, from your vineyards. You know you do the best you can and it you know you just we’re learning. We learn every vintage. That process never stops. So the education is ongoing and fascinating to me.

19:42

Dan, Dan, how’s your Tiktok game?

Dan Wampfler  19:46

Non existent. I have two daughters that take care of that. For me, I stay away from social media engagement as much as possible, because I will go down the rabbit hole quickly, like I’ve discovered. The new AI photo generation, and I just lay in bed making hilarious photos and sending it to my friends, including Kyle and yeah, it’s better that I don’t have anything else.

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Tod Brilliant  21:14

to go back to something you just said, Kyle about wine making being at the mercy of nature, right, of weather and just nature’s hard limits, but we live in this culture to get a little more serious for a second here. Dan, I hope that’s cool with you. We live in a culture that that really believes that that infinite growth is possible on a finite planet, as as a wine maker as a farmer. What do you think other industries can learn from the pace and the sort of longer horizon thinking of wine making and of farming? Because you have to, you have to be planning a decade in advance when you’re working with your growers, right? Sometimes more.

Dan Wampfler  21:59

Yeah, absolutely. We’re we’re finding vineyard sources at higher elevations that have cooler, better drainage, more diurnal shift. And I’m no climatologist, but global warming is real, and it’s got to be a forethought, not an afterthought, in what we’re doing in the vineyard and in the wine making. Wine Maker’s plan, viticulture’s plan, and Mother Nature laughs. And every vintage has its challenges and unique sets of logistical obstacles, whether that be forest fires in the south, whether that’s hard freezes, rain at bloom, wind, deer, pest problems, heat. I mean, we’ve got it all. We’re lucky in Washington, where a majority, if not all, of those factors are buffered by the quality environment that and the Charlotte that that Washington is known for. But yeah, absolutely, we’re very methodical about it, because it’s turning a train on a track or a ship in the ocean. It’s not nimble. And what I mean by that is whatever you do in a vineyard today can affect the vine in the vineyard the next two three years. So we we have to prep soil for two years before we plant, and then we’re three years before first fruit, typically, and then your red wines, two years in the barrel, and then on the urine bottle. That’s a long that’s a long roll, that’s a lot of cash and money and time and energy tied up. And you know, we we lean on the mentors that came before us, and I’ve got mine, Ray einberger and Dave Johnson and and Stan Howell, and then we we use our our peers to bounce ideas off of and we’re again, lucky in this industry that there’s a belief that high tide raises all boats. And that’s one of the best factors of Washington. Viticulture and grape growing is the camaraderie between the growers and the wine producers, and we share, we share information, we don’t keep secrets, and that that’s to our advantage.

Tod Brilliant  24:07

So you came into Washington Dan, you you could have gone to another country. You could have gone to California, Oregon, another wine growing region. You ended up in Washington, looking back on it now, are you so happy that you ended up in Washington because of it’s sort of a frontier for wine, and those frontier challenges and victories that you get? Oh, you’ve

Dan Wampfler  24:32

totally nailed it. I had opportunities in upstate New York. I did a vintage in Missouri. I could have stayed at Michigan. I had opportunities in Oregon, California, Washington, and Washington came calling with the right factors that checked all the boxes for me, which was a maturing, but base level of maturity of industry. It wasn’t agritourism. It was a wine industry that was flourishing, but still. Still nowhere near mature. It’s still nowhere near mature. And so there is that, that wild, wild west cowboy. Let’s Let’s experiment. Let’s try planting this variety in this location, and a lot of exploration to continue. Water is available, property, land is cheaper than some of the other parts, but all of the factors lead up to, we can, we can produce great grapes and great wines every year, even under really tough circumstances.

Tod Brilliant  25:34

So your your chemist curiosity, would you ever do another type of alcohol? Would you ever want to have you ever thought, oh, it’d be kind of fun to do something else like, you know, yeah,

Dan Wampfler  25:43

for sure. I mean, I started off brewing beer when I was in high school. Fell in love with fermentation, right? I was, I was popular with the with the buddies. I’ve done distillation, small, medium and large scale. But, you know, brewing, I want to keep my career separate from my hobbies. I love to brew beer, but I would want to do it, you know, home brew style. I would never want to make wine in the garage or in the kitchen. Distillation. I don’t have the patience for 15 year old, barrel aged bourbon when I can just go grab a bottle off the shelf, and wine is that perfect medium where we’re not doing the same thing any day in a row, racking barrels in the vineyard, tasting wines, blending, filtering, bottling, whatever, and then brewing. On the other side is it’s lather, rinse, repeat, and then every week, or every two weeks, you’re kind of doing the same thing with the same thing with the same process over and over again. Now I say that with respect, and I know I’m being very general, but for me, wine making is that happy balance of science and art, short term and long term, immediate gratification and forced patience. And ultimately, I got into wine because food and wine, in my opinion, are the only two art forms where you can enjoy with all of your senses and you can literally and figuratively share the fruits of your labor. And that’s that’s kind of my motto, is it’s not worth doing if it’s not worth sharing. And so I was lucky enough to find that early in school and in my career,

Tod Brilliant  27:18

well, I appreciate your Validating my tendency to eat with my hands a lot is, you know, which I do, because you’re right. It’s that tactile. You have to get the your senses involved there. I did do the research though Dan and there are two types of agave that are grown in Washington that could be possibly suitable for an American Mezcal. No kidding, yeah, you might, you know, maybe a future goal. Oh,

Dan Wampfler  27:44

game on, let’s do it. I’m a equal opportunity edenist, so tequila sounds like a great idea.

Tod Brilliant  27:49

No, no, no, mezcal. Oh, sorry, sorry, yeah, it’s much more, much more elegant liquor than totally Yeah. Okay, just want to be sure. Game on. I’m

Kyle MacLachlan  28:02

drinking Mezcal right now. What time is it? Yeah, it’s 1030 10:30pm Oh, well, yes, no, I approve. Let’s look at let’s see if we can find those plants. Dan

28:16

deal, I have

Tod Brilliant  28:18

notes. I’ll send them to you later. Excellent. So, Dan, you’ve heard the whole conversation around I’m assuming nepotism in Hollywood, right?

28:29

Sure tell of it, right?

Tod Brilliant  28:31

I asked because I’m producing a little film right now starring a talented young actor whose parents happen to be Oscar winners, and I want your take on this, because your dad was a chemist. Am I right? You are correct? Yeah, absolutely. And here you are a young wine chemist getting all famous on the Wine Enthusiast podcast, pretty much like the wine world equivalent of of your this is your Oscar speech? No, seriously, though, how did your dad’s career influence you? And you think that going through and having a chem major at Michigan State gives you a different perspective or approach than wine makers who came up more straight through the viticulture side of things?

Dan Wampfler  29:18

Yeah, I don’t think it’s better or worse. It’s just different than, you know, my mom and my dad are both amazing folks, and my dad is the math, science brain, and my mom is the artist, English, poetry side. And I think that’s kind of where phenotypically I landed. So it’s your genotype plus environment equals phenotype. So I’ve got the artistic side, kind of from my mom, and I’ve got the I’ve got the science minded brain from my dad. And I guess when you grow up in an environment and you just kind of assume, okay, I’m from Midland, Michigan, the hometown of Dow Chemical, a worldwide chemical company. My dad was a chemist, and I I studied chemistry. I went to dow High School. Uh, the library with chh Dow Memorial ice library. And so I just assumed. I never questioned. I was like, Oh, I’m gonna go into science. This is where it’s gonna go. And I worked at Dow Chemical through high school and college, and I claimed chemistry as a major and sophomore junior year, I was like, you know, I don’t know that I want to wear a white lab coat for the rest of my life. People ask you, oh, what do you do for a living? I make the plastic widgets to go in your lawnmower. Okay? And what do you do for a living? And you know, the conversation goes quickly to someone else, and again, brewing beer and finding a passion of this product that’s something you can share with with senses. And then there’s science involved. It was magical. But speaking to the understanding of chemistry, I think that there’s a major advantage of chemistry, not in producing artistic wines, but in finding the ways around the hurdles and the hoops in the challenging years. So wine making is really easy, quite frankly, if you just get out of the way and everything’s perfect, you add yeast, and the yeast eat. And you know, we’re not wine makers, we’re yeast shepherds. Let them do their thing. But when something doesn’t going according to plan, you lose refrigeration, and the ferment gets too hot, or it rains and you got to change your picking decision. Or there, there are fires, or there are microbial spoilage issues. That’s where the chemistry and the logistics comes into play. It’s how to stay out of trouble and how to get out of trouble when you find your way there. And luckily, in Washington State, viticulture and wine making, the trouble is not too deep, but I’ve found myself or a few barrels in trouble, and that chemistry background has allowed us to to circumvent point of no return types of scenarios.

Tod Brilliant  31:47

That’s, that’s, that’s a great way to put it. How interested has your dad been in the chemistry of wine? Is he geeked out for you?

Dan Wampfler  31:54

Oh, for sure. He was instrumental in my graduate studies. And then he jokes that. He said, You know, when you were going to school and I changed my major from chemistry to wine making, he says, Okay, so are you going into hospitality? Is this something you really want to do, or do you want to stay grounded in hardcore chemistry? And I was like, no, no, I definitely want to do it. And so he’s fallen in love with wines over the years, and he’s fallen for the hospitality sides of things. And they come out every year for harvest. My mom and dad still live in Michigan, and they come out for between six and eight weeks, because we do have, we do have two daughters, as I said, and so they help us pack lunches and get kids shuttled to and from school and sports and and then, you know, dad will come out with a cup of coffee to the winery and watch us process fruit and watch us blend wines. And he can come and go as he pleases, but you can tell he’s certainly intrigued. And then grabs a bottle of wine off on my desk and takes it home. And my mom gives us beautiful tasting notes, because she’s got she’s got a elevated and sophisticated palate

Tod Brilliant  32:59

as well, and you probably have a centrifuge in your lab anyway, right? We have

Dan Wampfler  33:03

two. We have a one for larger beakers and one for smaller beakers. Yes,

Tod Brilliant  33:06

testing. So your dad is like, it’s legit. Oh, for sure.

Dan Wampfler  33:11

Yeah, yeah. He kind of, he kind of geeks out on that. And I’m like, Hey, Dad, you want to be a harvest intern? He was like, No, I don’t. I want to watch for free.

Tod Brilliant  33:18

Kyle, when you watch Dan doing his thing. Do you ever think, oh, man, I’d like to get into this more like, is there, is there a wine maker in you? No,

Kyle MacLachlan  33:29

not at all. I so appreciate what what Dan does. And I so love that he and Amy both when I come in with my very rudimentary, primitive language about what what I’m tasting, and what I’m kind of hoping and what we’re trying to go for, that he’s able to translate that very eloquently into into what I really mean. I’m like, Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say. I just didn’t really know the words or how we were going to get there, so I completely hand over the the reins of any of that the wine making process to him, I will say that I’m involved up until the point that that chemistry starts to be come part of the equation, because I’m I was terrible at chemistry in high school and really had no interest. But I do enjoy the blending process. I do enjoy talking through what we’re trying to go for. I do enjoy the flavor profiles and and that journey very much. And I’m very, very involved in that process. And we have long conversations about that. And that’s, that’s about as, about as, as close as I want to get to the actual process of the wine making process itself.

Tod Brilliant  34:41

So, Dan, you make your wine, it gets out into the world, and then you have to submit it on that zero to 100 point rating thing that various magazines, including ours, put out there. Wineries chase these 100 Point scores, the way studios Chase billion dollar box office totals. Do you think that this obsession with ratings is overall healthy for the wine industry? Where’s the value in it for you at the end of the day, other than sales? Well,

Dan Wampfler  35:13

Sal sales certainly is the most important recognition of quality. But you know, I find that over the last decade, there’s been an evolution in the communication with wine writers and wine makers, at least with us, to be able to share the story behind the bottle, so that it’s it’s the people, it’s the vineyards, it’s the barrels, it’s the experience, not just a wine and a glass. And of course, the quality, the quality, has to be there without question. And the wine has to be able to stand on its own in a blind lineup and say, I’ve got, I’ve got all of the key characteristics to get, you know, 90 plus points. But ultimately, it’s, you know, it’s one person’s opinion at one point in time converging with the the age of the wine. And it can change any any day. And I think that there’s evolution of wines that that would score differently at different points, but that’s okay. These these wine critics, are getting it right most of the time, and so we celebrate the high 90s, and luckily, we’re not getting in the 80s, and we kind of raise an eyebrow at the low 90s and hope for more, but, but, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s art, right? We’re the artists, and they’re the art critics, and so we, we have to be okay with that. I do want to circle back though real quick, Tod, because you asked if Kyle wants to get into wine making, and he said no, but you didn’t ask me if I wanted to be in acting. And I want so badly to be either, uh, in a cameo with Kyle or on the the Smart List podcast or a scene with Will Ferrell. So I’m working on my sag card, and it’s not going relatively fast.

Tod Brilliant  37:00

Well, you know, I did have a question in here to Kyle, would Dan make a good actor? And can you get him a cameo?

Kyle MacLachlan  37:08

Oh, I’m working on my screen. I’m working on it. You know, there’s, there are so many actors in in Fallout. There’s so many opportunities in Fallout to be, you know, to be torn apart by a Deathclaw, yes, to be, you know, to be, have a rad Roach, you know, consume the inside of your brain. And, you know, so that. So, you know, I’m still hoping that there’ll be a but he needs a line. Well, of course, he’d have a line. It would be ah, or visceral scream, or no, and that, and that would go miles towards helping you get your sag cards, your screen actors, guild card. Damn, trying to help. I’m just trying to help, right?

Tod Brilliant  37:50

We heard, we heard the promise here. We heard the promise here. I’m working on a couple. I’m working on a couple projects as well. Dan, so you know, if he doesn’t, if your partner doesn’t, do you, right? You know, hit me up, and

likewise, I’ll bring wine.

Tod Brilliant  38:06

There we go. And regardless of the score, back to back to the ratings, I want to ask you both, one at a time, pretend that you’re not hearing each other. All right, regardless of the score, what vintage and varietal Pursued by Bear are you most proud of so far? Kyle?

Kyle MacLachlan  38:23

oh, well, I tend to like the odd years. So we’re currently in 21 our release is a 2021, for the pursued and some of the other reds. And it was a hot year, low yielding year, but a really good year. But I also love the 19, particularly the twin bear Cabernet. 19 is, is really magical. And I, and I, you know, I go back in the fifth to 2015 jumps out of me. And then we go into even numbers of 2012 as well. You got to pick one. Come on, man, no, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t pick one. It’s impossible. I usually just say my favorite vintage is the one that I’m drinking in currently. So I guess the 2021, is where we’re at right now, and I’m loving it. It’s so good, so good.

Tod Brilliant  39:14

Dan, do you have a sentimental favorite of Pursued by Bears so far?

Dan Wampfler  39:20

It would be either 2008 Baby Bear syrup, which was the inaugural Syrah in punch in large format barrel, and or 2011 Pursued by Bear cab, because 11 was an abysmal, challenging, cold, rainy, wet vintage, and the wine turned out so beautiful and elegant and it’s aged so gloriously. Or 2015 Pursued by Bear cab, which is just, it’s got it all checks every box. Our Chardonnay that we’ve come out with the the twin bear Chardonnay is pretty incredible as well. Yeah,

Kyle MacLachlan  39:55

you’re right. That’s, that’s a weird second vintage of that. I. And we source from it comes from the Yakima Ava Dick Bucha as a grower. He’s, he’s, he’s been around for a while, and he just does beautiful stuff in the vineyard. And so we source from him, and that Chardonnay is really good, lean and luscious. And, you know, pointing towards that elusive Burgundian style that we all really, really love, and that that’s, that’s where that it falls sort of on that in in the wine panel,

Tod Brilliant  40:33

it’s great, yeah, you guys have a tasting room that’s open, correct?

Kyle MacLachlan  40:36

Yeah, the pursuab air tasting room is in Walla, Walla, so

Tod Brilliant  40:40

we can get our hands on your wine through the taste room in person, which is the best, because it’s experiential. Dan, you’re there sometimes. Yeah,

Dan Wampfler  40:49

I do make a cameo appearance every once in a while with Kyle when he’s in town on on busy weekends. And yeah, we have fun.

Tod Brilliant  40:57

So there and the wine club, which you offer, which is a tremendous wine club with all sorts of cool perks. You get to be an extra in Fallout at the top tier. I think I read that somewhere,

41:10

Yeah, but you’re, but you disappear very quickly. You’re just, you know,

Tod Brilliant  41:14

all right, so let’s wrap this up. I’m going to steal from another podcast. Have you guys listened to the how I built this podcast? Guys ever heard of that one? I’ve heard of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, how I built this podcast. They asked, how much of your success is about luck, and how much is about, you know, grit or hard work. And I want to ask you that of both of you, what do you think Kyle,

Kyle MacLachlan  41:36

um, there was certainly a huge amount of luck in the beginning of my career, and that’s continued throughout the chance meeting of David Lynch as he was looking for an actor for his for the lead role in dune in 1983 and the fact that I happened to be in Seattle, auditioned in Seattle, And then the subsequent meeting in Los Angeles, and the connection I had with David, has no doubt, been huge, has had a huge impact on my career. I was prepared for it. I had finished three years of intense training for Repertory Theater. I knew my stuff. I had my chops down, but that, that stroke of luck, really turned everything around for me in a very short time. I’m very, very lucky. Dan,

42:26

similar,

Dan Wampfler  42:27

answer, the luck is meeting the mentors, and the grit is listening to them and following through what they have mentored. Luck is meeting Kyle, and the grit is supporting his vision, our vision of creating better and better wines every year. So the luck is the opportunity and the grid is following through, so you don’t miss out on what that opportunity potentially provided you. But the luckiest thing I’ve ever had in my life was meeting Amy, truly, and her put and her saying, Yes, I guess that was pretty

Tod Brilliant  43:06

Kyle. What’s next for you? What are you working on next? Outside of Pursued by Bear.

Kyle MacLachlan  43:10

We just wrapped Season Two of Fallout. They have a few more weeks to go. I’m hoping that they’ll be able to get it out at the end of the year. It’s hard to know. There’s a lot that they have to do a lot of second third unit work in editing, and then I leave in a couple days, a couple weeks, I should say, to Tulsa, Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I’m working with Ethan Hawke and Tim Blake Nelson on a little series called the sensitive kind directed by Sterling Harjo, who is just a greatest, the greatest guy he directed, created, wrote and directed reservation dogs from couple years ago, and just really a beautiful storyteller. And so I’m going to be going to Tulsa, and working alongside Jean triple horn is also in it, and looking forward to seeing her. So that’ll be that’ll carry me into sort of mid May.

Tod Brilliant  44:06

And Dan, what’s what’s going on with you? What’s next for pursued, anything else in the wine world, in your life? What’s what’s coming up? Bud break,

Dan Wampfler  44:14

and we’re gonna start getting ready for a glorious summer of farming and and we’re bottling the Pursued by Bear upcoming vintage in the first week of May. We’ve got spring release weekend, the first weekend in May, which is Walla, Walla, biggest wine weekend of the year. We’re really excited about that. So Spring is in full bloom right now. So we’re we’re mowing it, mowing and pruning and trimming and manicuring the property and us and all the wineries getting ready for the onslaught of wonderful travelers and wine aficionados alike coming to wall. Wall. Well,

Tod Brilliant  44:55

I appreciate you both giving us an hour of your time and telling us your story. A big fan of what you’re doing. Really look forward to what’s next. I have inquired about, presume, by Barrett, a couple of the local wine shops that I’ve been in, just sort of nudging them to bring it in, because I think that’s that is important, folks, if you’re at a restaurant, you’re at a wine shop and you’re interested in a wine that you’ve heard about, or that you’ve read about in a magazine, maybe Wine Enthusiast, or heard on podcast, ask for it, ask them to bring it in. Yeah, you know that helps. That’s, that’s how it works. You know, it really does. Yeah,

Kyle MacLachlan  45:32

all those inquiries, just hearing the name, maybe turning this all onto a wine you didn’t know about is helpful.

Tod Brilliant  45:40

If the, if the Washington section of the wine shop looks really small, you know, say, Hey, come on, yeah, make it a little bigger. Oregon. Won’t mind. Yeah, exactly, exactly. No, really. Thanks guys, thank you for your time. I wish you the best. Tod,

45:55

thank you real pleasure.

Speaker 1  46:02

I’d like to thank Kyle Tod and Dan for their time conversation and insights. Today, you can email us your comments and questions at podcast at Wine enthusiast.com and remember, you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, and anywhere else you listen to your favorite shows. You can also go to one enthusiast.com backslash podcast for more episodes and transcripts. I’m Jordan Kaplan. Thanks for listening. You.

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